2001 Dodge Grand Caravan - Codes 1684, P0442 & P0455

JAM
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2001 Dodge Grand Caravan - Codes 1684, P0442 & P0455

Postby JAM » Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:25 pm

2001 Dodge Grand Caravan, 3.3L V6 with aprox 97K miles, check engine light is on again for the fourth time in less than 2 months.

The first time the codes were 1684 & P0456, we changed the gas cap to a new one and had the codes reset.

The second time was 2 days later, the codes were again 1684 & P0456. We took it in, had a crack in a line fixed and reset codes again.

About a week and a half after that the light came on and the codes were the same again. We took it in, scanned code P0456, checked for leak in EVAP, could not locate leak. They told us we should check out service bulletin 18-028-3 and reset the codes again.

It had been 6 days when the light came back on and this time the codes are 1684, P0442 & P0455.

This is getting really frustrating. Were should we check now? What else could be causing these codes? Any suggestions?


jeff compton
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Postby jeff compton » Tue Jun 06, 2006 3:49 pm

you didn't say whether your're trying to have this fixed at a dealer or not
so I'll assume you have. First of all make sure the shop or dealer you're
dealing with has a smoke machine for checking the system, If they don't then find another shop. I don't know of a dealer that doesn't have a machine but there 's a first time for everything. So if you've been chasing
this issue at an independant shop that isn't equipped with a machine then that's your first problem. If you've seen any of my other posts then you might have caught that I work at a Chrysler dealer and fix those codes alot. They're probably the easiest system to work on if you have the equipment and resources. The scan tool used at Chrysler dealerships allows the technician to run a verifications test before and after to verify the system is in fact sealled or not, what this means for the most part is that if the light is coming on this frequently then it "should" be an easy enough leak to find and fix and wasn't diagnossed properly, If it passes the systems test when the tech is testing it but comes on later then normally the customer is leaving the cap loose, overfilling the gas tank or the cap isn't sealling correctly. I Know you said you've replaced the cap but was it a chrysler cap? Lots of aftermarkets are valved incorrectly.
If I was working on this van I'd look first for a rotted out filler neck beneath the gas cap and then maybe a vent valve for the Leak detection pump. 2 very common spots for these codes, So are the vaccum lines around the purge solenoid and under the air filter box and around the cannister and tank. Like I said these aren't hard codes to fix if you have the right software, tools and a little bit of understanding of how the system works. I'd need more info on where they found the cracked line
but I you'd like I should be able to talk you through getting this fixed

good luck and keep me postted

Jeff

jeff compton
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Postby jeff compton » Tue Jun 06, 2006 4:03 pm

check tsb #25-001-02 rev A, will tell you or the tech how to check the LDP
vent valve

JAM
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2001 Dodge Grand Caravan - Codes 1684, P0442 & P0455

Postby JAM » Tue Jun 06, 2006 4:37 pm

Jeff,
We had taken the van to the local repair / service shop. The line that they fixed was underneath on the evap. cannister. They did not have a smoke machine. We did however get the new fuel cap from the dealership in town.

What would make the codes go from P0456 to P0442 & P0455? What does the P1684 code mean? Would any of this have an impact on our gas mileage? Our mileage has dropped about 10 mpg. since all this started.

I am trying to get a time set up with the dealership, the major problem with taking it there is that the last time we had to take it there it took them a week to get it back to us and I can't go with out a vehicle for that long with the kids out of school for the summer.

Lorrie

JAM
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Postby JAM » Tue Jun 06, 2006 5:26 pm

How can I get details of TSB? I can only find a summary.

jeff compton
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Postby jeff compton » Tue Jun 06, 2006 7:10 pm

Po442, po456 and po455 all mean the evap system is leaking, they are
just different numbers for different sizes of leaks, p1684 just means the pcm's power source was disconnectted less than 50 key cycles ago.
If the shop you took it too doesn't have a smoke machine then it's not up to date and shouldn't be working on your van period, Not purcahsing the equipment to diagnose problems like this is essentially saying, I'm not a good enough a mechanic to get the use out of the machine, I couldn't be bothered fixing difficult things like those "codes that don't mean anything"
Or they think that they can't recoup the investtment of the machines price.
This is all just the wrong attitude to have for a shop owner, I hope they've been reasonable with you and haven't charged you every time to essentially do nothing right! I understand the dilemma you have with needing your van, I deal with that on a daily basis but My customers always are more upset about the time they loose having to come back 3 times then being without it for I time. Like I said at the dealer this is a real easy fix, I don't think it would affect your gas mileage much although it is a vaccum leak although not in the traditional way that an older car would be affectted and to be honest I've never had a customer complain about a fuel mileage drop at the same time nor have I had one of there vehicles long enough to notice increased fuel consumption. I'd be more inclined to look at replacing the spark plugs and wires at that mileage if they've never been done. I unfortunately can't provide for you the tsb but it should be available somewhere on line, in a nutshell it's just how the LDP vent valve works and how to test it, It's scary that the shop
you took it to didn't even have access to it! Most shops have Mitchel On demand, Shop key etc for finding tsbs, did this shop have lights and hosits? Seriously I'd recommend the dealer or a shop better equipped and more experienced with caravans, Most parts to fix those codes cost less than 30 dollars and most leaks are found and repairred in under 2 hrs plus the dealer scan tool will run the test before the van is returned to you. the most expensive repair for this code would be the filler neck like we talked about

good luck and keep me postted

Jeff

dwightandwendy
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Postby dwightandwendy » Sat Aug 19, 2006 2:47 pm

WOW - I am having the EXACT same issue with my 2001 Dodge Grand Caravan, 3.8L, V-6, approx. 75,000 miles. We had the same codes with terrible gas mileage. We took it in and they, not a dealer, found 3 bad fuel lines. We had the lines replaced and about a week later the check engine light came on. We took it in again and had the codes reset and bought a new gas cap. A few days later the check engine light came back on with the P0442 & p0455 codes. And our gas mileage has been so bad I have been thinking that someone has been stealing gas from me.

Lorrie - did you by chance follow what Jeff suggested? And what was the result? If you did take it to the dealer, do you remember how long they had your van and the cost? Thanks in advance!

Dwight

jeff compton
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Postby jeff compton » Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:47 am

I had 2 vans in last week , both 2001, both with the same evap codes, both with almost the same scenario as yours and they both required the filler neck to be replaced. If the shop you're seeing doesn't have a smoke machine they won't be able to competently diag or repair these codes no matter what they tell you. The machine is the only way to confirm the system is sealled. A vacuum pump test line by line, component is not accurate enough. The system runs at less then 2 psi so alot of lines that aren't leaking but looked cracked get replaced and the codes still return. I can see I'll have to post an article or something similar on this site about these codes.

Good luck and keep me postted

Jeff

MarkC
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Location: New Jersey

Hi Jeff.. Were you able to post more details on this repair?

Postby MarkC » Sun Sep 24, 2006 8:58 am

I have a 2002 Town & Country and have had the same problem (codes for minor and gross leak detected). Had codes shut off and they just reappear, so I have to fix the leak somewhere.

Used to be you could open a Chilton's manual and see where everything was, then repalace a few pieces of hose. I can't seem to find anything online.

I notice you last post in this thread said you might have to come up with a repair guide for the fix-it-yourselvers in the forum.

Did you manage to find something? If so please send me a link or document. Thanks

Mark

jeff compton
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Postby jeff compton » Mon Sep 25, 2006 9:14 am

Did I manage to find something. Yeah I find repairs for those codes everyday at work. DId I write a guide for it yet, No I've been busy.
Have you read all the posts that the other people have used to find the repairs. Have you checked anything yourself? The point of this site is to assist people. Not do "all " the work for them! If you read you'll see where the common spots to look are and how to get it fixed if you see nothing visually.

MarkC
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Location: New Jersey

Oh well...

Postby MarkC » Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:15 am

I saw that JAM indicated all they could find was a TSB summary and you offered (as you usually do) some good, constructive comments. Then DwightandWendy asked for more information and on August 21st you said, "I can see I'll have to post an article or something similar".

I have been searching and reading every post I can find and see reference to LDPs, canisters, filters, hose, etc. but as mentioned in my post, I could not find anything with diagrams to help me understand where these would be located. As a result it is difficult for me to do a visual check. I was not looking for you to come over and fix it, just hoping you had followed up per the prior comment to offer something more. Since you've not found the time, I'll have to give up.

I guess, it is time to go the the dealer, trust whatever they tell me and pay whatever they ask. That is not a personal attack or reflection on you Jeff. I can tell you offer a lot of time to help others, this site just did not have enough to help me. I am sure you have seen cases in which a consumer got ripped off by repair of their home, air conditioner, automobile, etc.. I was trying to avoid that potential and be an even more informed consumer.

jeff compton
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Postby jeff compton » Mon Sep 25, 2006 12:57 pm

Use the vaccum diagram under the hood to trace the vaccum lines in the system. If you see any cracked, split disconnectted etc then repair them. I change alot of filler necks on 2002 caravans that have rustted out behind the inner fender and are leaking. I'm not trying to tell you to buzz off but all the common spots to look are explainned in the posts all ready as is how the dealer goes about testting it effectively. If I don't have your van in front of me I can't pinpoint it, I can only guide people where to look on the vehicle. These are just one of many codes that a do-it yourselfer isn't often equipped to tackle. If you replace every vaccum line, valve, solenoid, cannister etc and the light still stays because the filler neck is rotted then how far ahead are you really by attemptting it yourself. People tend to get ripped off by these codes by going to shops other then the dealer. They don't have the tools often or the experience
that I do so even if they mean well you're money is still wasted if they try something and it doesn't work. I have alot of shops call me and send vans to me for those codes because they can't fix them or don't wish to buy the tools to diag them properly. Again It's not that I don't want to help I just cant keep repeatting the same fixes all the time. I have alot of posts for new codes on new vehicles that require attention as well. I'm not trying to blow you off and I'm sorry if it comes out that way!Not my intention. If I listted every spot I'd ever seen for leaks in the hose or every repair I've ever done for those codes on a Chryler Iit'd be 2 pages long.

MarkC
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Location: New Jersey

So.. it was the Primary purge hose

Postby MarkC » Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:14 pm

There were some good comments made by Jeff in other posted for the P0455 code, one being that you really want to clear the code so you know if something new and more serious starts to happen. I went to the dealer and paid $170 labor, and 5.81 parts (a special hose and a clamp).

Don't know why I never realised or read in the posted that there was a diagram under my engine hood, but.. oh well. It is now taken care off. They said it was a small leak at a loop on the hose and they only found it with the smoke tester. After the fix they repeated the tests to make sure.

I was waiting and researching for 1 month, but now for $200, it's done. one less thing on my list.

jeff compton
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Postby jeff compton » Tue Sep 26, 2006 10:56 am

200 bucks is about average for those codes being repairred, unless it's more then a rubber hose like the filler neck for example.

Jakub Novak
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Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:38 pm
Location: Prague, Czech Republic, Europe

P0456 - 2001 Dodge Grand Caravan

Postby Jakub Novak » Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:49 pm

Hello,

I have the same problem as is described above - check engine light is on and P0456 on my 2001 Dodge Grand Caravan 3.3L V6, approx. 105K kms. Three times in shop, no solution, just money spent for nothing...
I read something about the "smoke machine". Please make me familiar with it, what is that and how it works. I would like to ask for using it at another shop I would like to visit and I am not sure, whether those technicians will know what is it a how it workes...

Thanks very much for help and advice.

Jakub
Czech Republic, Europe

jeff compton
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Postby jeff compton » Sat Sep 15, 2007 8:12 pm

have you been to a chrysler dealer?

Jose Hawaii
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Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:49 pm

Codes On My Minivan 2001 83,000 miles P0442-P0455-P0456

Postby Jose Hawaii » Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:00 pm

3.3L V-6 Thanks to your website I was able to have my vehicle checked by a professional who completed the pump vent valve replacement. The cutter dealer originally stated it was the purge solenoid which needed replacement. I had another company look at it & found only one problem code 0456. They replaced the valve for a total of $91.54 WOW the dealer wanted $150 plus, to do the same job. Sure I agree to use someone reputable and your advise on the equipment needed to diognose the problem codes was extremely helpful. Thanks again for your assitance in the matter.

Jose in Oahu Hawaii

lcollinward
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Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:57 am

Diagram Location?

Postby lcollinward » Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:03 am

I have seen in this post and other posts comments about a vacuum diagram under the hood of the Grand Caravan. I checked last night and the only diagram that I could find was simply the diagram for the serpentine belt.

Am I missing something? Or was this diagram not on all vehicles?


I am trying to fix P0455 and P0456 codes on my wife's 2002 Grand Caravan Sport. Any help would be appreciated.

jeff compton
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Postby jeff compton » Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:36 am

The diagram may have been removed if the rad support5 was replaced or repainnted, on the strut tower maybe? Have you checked the common spots that this thread has pointted to? can you find the green service cap?

lcollinward
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Postby lcollinward » Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:00 am

Sorry, just reread this post and did not see anything that pointed me to the diagram, just mention "under the hood".

I am inferring from your question that I should look for the green service cap and the diagram might be in that vicinity. Any chance there is an electronic version of this diagram?

Thanks.


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