P0133, P0136, P0302 ('98 Volvo S70)

Hi I can't begin to understand what to do with this car (yah... I'm one of those guys). Apparently the car was taken to MIDAS (see reciept below) and a "whole new exhaust" was done on the car. I don't understand the receipt in which what was actually done. But they spent over $2K on it.

Well we have failed our emissions test for the car. There is errors with the 02 Sensors and now A Cylinder MisFire. Basically I wanna take it back to MIDAS and have them fix it, because we supposedly got a "whole new exhaust" system put on. I am afraid that they are going to trap us for more repair... I can't belive its gonna so much to get this car to run right.

Below I have the receipt from MIDAS and the reports from the Inspection, showing the CEL codes, etc.

I am looking for some understanding of the situation. What I can get MIDAS to cover under the warranty for the repairs we had done. And what I am facing to get this to be fixed right.

Any help would greatly be appreciated.

Thanks!

Andy

Were the codes present BEFORE or AFTER Midas did the work?

The Midas receipt is a little faded but it looks like they replaced the Exhaust Manifold, Converter, Muffler and Tailpipe along with some gaskets, hangers, U-Bolts, etc.

Code P0133 is saying the upstream O2 Sensor Circuit or the Sensor is slow to respond. This can be either a worn out O2 Sensor (your car is 9 yrs. old with almost 135,000 miles on it) or they may have damaged the wiring/connections to it when they did the work.

Code P0136 is saying there is a malfunction in the circuit wiring/connections to the downstream O2 Sensor. Again, this may have happened during the converter replacement.

Code P0302 is a misfire on cylinder #2. Perhaps they damaged a plug wire or something when they replaced the exhaust manifold.

Either way, I'd take it back to Midas for correction. It may be something as simple as checking the wiring. Of course, if you had the codes before you went to Midas....

good luck and keep us posted.

Why did they replace the exhaust manifold? Was it leaking? That seems like an odd thing to do.

It was likely cracked on that car! We need to know if the check engine light was on prior to Midas working on it. If so and you chose to not have any repairs performed besides the exhaust work then they probably wouldn't be found liable because what was broke before if ignored is likely to be broke after. A new exhaust system front to back won't fix a misfire dtc and depending on the circumstances won't repair an 02 sensor code although it is possible the exhaust work caused them although you didn't tell us the time frame between when the work was performed and when the testting was done. Have you even approached Midas yet? That would be the first thing to do before posting here. We're not a legal advice website! I

Hi guys... thank you for the responses, much appreciated.

I am almost positive the CEL came on after the repairs were done. I will check with the guy who was running the car and had the repairs done. FYI, this is a company car. I am pretty sure he brought the car in because the exhaust was very loud, and the noise was coming from the engine. Again, I will confirm tomorrow when I get in the office and repost.

When I have the receipt in front of me tomorrow, I will retype some of it on here to be clear what was done. On the receipt, the line above where the Manifold and Converter is mentioned it says "OPTIONAL:" So I can't tell if they offered the option to repair it or if it was done or not.

I don't know why they replaced the Manifold... like I said, we brought it in because the exhaust was very loud. The way I see it... they told the guy who brought it in to do X Y Z... and they did after his approval.

I have posted here first to get some more information... I am afraid to approach MIDAS becuase I think they will slap us with a slew of charges for more repairs. I hate to think, wow, $2K for an exhaust system repair... and we still have problems. Know what I mean? I understand you cannot provide legal advice, etc. But would you by chance be able to assist me in my verbage when I communicate the issues to MIDAS. I would like to approach them with the fact that the new problems came after the $2K repair and see if they were responsible.

Thank you again for your time... more to follow tomorrow.

Andy

I talked to the guy who brought the car in. I guess I was wrong... sorry, he belives the CEL was on before he brought it in. They told him what to do to fix it. They performed the work and the light went out. Then eventually it went back on. He brought it back in and they told him it was the 02 Sensor. And it would cost an additional $1000.

I typed out the receipt of the important info:

Service Comments:
OIL LEAK UNDER CAR LOOKS LIKE RIGHT SIDE AXLE SEAL

Exhaust:
1 EXI EXHAUST INSPECTION
EXHAUST INSPECTION N/C: EXHAUST LOUD
1 LE EXHAUST LABOR
INSTALL MANIFOLD&CONVERTER AND REPAIR REAR EXHAUST
REAR SECTION WILL NEED REPLACEMENT EVENTUALLY
1 MAM-519203 * F GASKETS

Optional:
1 01 MANIFOLD
1 01 CONVERTER

These parts and/or services were declined by the customer
1 MAM-280516 S1 F GAURANTEE MUFFLERS
1 MAM310232 S1 F TAIL PIPE

S1 Pipe weak due to corrosion, but no leaks present
S1 Weak due to corrosion, but no leaks present

Thanks,

Andy

I think this is probably a case of miscommunication between all parties!
If the driver of the car has been ignoring the check engine light and finally took the car in for repairs when the exhaust was too loud to bear and now the exhaust is no longer loud and there was additional work recommended to repair the codes and it was declined then Midas did there job. End of story. Maybe the exhaust manifold leaking is causing the oxygen sensor code but either it wasn't properly communicated to you as part of the solution or somebody running the numbers figured the bill was high enough and chose to ignore it. Again not Midas's fault or problem. A word to the wise though! The best drivability guy for working on a Volvo likely won't be found working at a Midas Muffler. Oxygen sensors often have to be removed for alot of Exhuast work and it's not uncommon for them to not work properly after. If they were recommnended and declined then you get what you pay for. If they're failled now after the fact the work was done then in my opinion the service advisor didn't do his job properly by making you aware of the scenario before hand. 1000 dollars seem expensive for one 02 sensor although it depends on the parts supllier that was quoted and exactly the labour it takes to replace it. Probably the 1000 dollars quaoted includes the new exhaust manifold and labour plus the 02 sensor. That likely will fix it. Sounds like a situation of a well used and neglected comapny car that required more money for repairs then hoped for and budgetted for.

I agree with Jeff...

Perhaps you should take the car either to a Volvo dealer or some reputable shop you trust for another quote.

Right now the car has a loud exhaust again... and there is a loud whistle noise coming from under the engine. The car was repaired at MIDAS and the exhaust was still loud, but not as bad when it was first brought in. We were told nothing about the 02 Sensors being bad when it was first brought in or after repaired. There was no CEL after it was repaired.

The light came back on. The car was brought back in, then it was communicated to us that the 02 Sensors needed to be repaired.

If they didn't tell us originally that the 02 Sensors were not operating, then it sounds they may have possibly... possibly been damaged with the repairs.

I'm thinking that the 02 Sensors were damaged from the repairs like you have mentioned, and it may be worth a shot to try and get MIDAS to repair them under the warranty.

If not, I'll talk to a shop I've gone to for years, and ask if they can check it out as well.

Last resort we bite the bullet and take it Volvo to hopefully have it done correctly and done right the first time.

What do you guys think. Thanks again for your time.

Andy

I learned a long time ago. Just take it to the dealer and get it fixed right the first time. I'd go to a dealer and pay a little more any day. That is unless I've got an excellent referral for a smaller shop. 9 times out of 10 I take my vehicle to the dealer when I can't fix it myself.

If you have shop that you dealt with for years why did this car end up at a Midas of all places? Sometimes people just don't get that loyalty to any repair centre dealer or independant goes along way to wards getting it fixed right the first time. Trust me the person that comes in to my dealer and gives me the "my mechanic" speech doesn't get the same loving attention to there vehicle that someone that I've dealt with several times does. Why because if "your mechanic" is so good why are you here? If you're only here because he can't do something that I can then you're darn right you're gonna pay for it. For whatever reason they have pre determined opinions about me so why try to sway them to the other way. It doesn't matter how technically advanced I could be from him the next time the brakes squeal or something else goes wrong they're still gonna see him first. If you have a fleet of company vehicles I suggest you find 1 well equipped repair facility and send all your work to them. They'll likely give you a discount on the door rate and parts markup in exchange for all the work you're bringing them and they'll learn the quirks of your fleet Which will benefit everyone.

The car was in VA at the time for work, and the guy who was driving it at the time brought it in there.

I've recently been put in charge of our fleet.

Andy

In your first post you said the car was taken to Midas for a loud exhaust.

You also mentioned the CEL was on before Midas did any work.

Several component replacements were refused, therefor you did not get a whole new exhaust.

If the car is still loud, you must find out what is making it loud as well as the whistle. If it is related to the parts Midas changed then they should come good for it. If not, then it's on your dime.

As far as the codes are concerned, take it to a different shop, either dealer or someone you trust.

Personally, I never go to a chiropractor to fix a tooth ache!